We need recognition now

I saw a debate on the BBC news channel recently about the proposed NHS reforms being unfavoured by many doctors. Apparently many GP members of the GMC were not happy with the proposed changes and new powers to be given to them, but those who were actually in the trial phases were extremely happy with how it was going.

Both the presenter and health minister debated over the reforms as if the NHS only consisted of doctors and nurses. The health minister talked about the drug bill rising because of an ageing population, which was one of the main reasons for reform, but no mention of pharmacy or pharmacists?

 

"If society and the governement don't recognise the importance of pharmacists as they do for nurses, I don't see how GPs will"


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If society and the government do not recognise the importance of pharmacists as they do even for nurses, I don't see how GPs will. It has to start from the top down. It's all well and good when I hear keynote speakers and invited MP guests to conferences and ceremonies mention pharmacy and how the government recognise its importance, but I want to see it.

Two of my local GPs, who own and run their own small practices, really appreciate the efforts we go to to help their patients and receptionists. However, the more modern ones, of which we have have four that we collect prescriptions from, small ‘mini clinics' with more than one doctor, seem to only care about cutting their costs and do not really see things as a bigger picture.

One of these surgeries has always refused to provide weekly scripts for dossette box patients. We all know how labour-intensive dossette boxes are to make and check, so it is only fair to ask for weekly or even fortnightly scripts.

Some PCTs pay per community patient, so it would not matter much, but mine does not. This particular surgery refuses point blank stating the senior partners confirmed they did not wish to sign more prescriptions than needed, as it takes too long.

Now, if GPs cannot see that an extra 10 minutes of scribbling on their part compared to the hours and hours taken to complete dossette boxes for patients is not asking for much, I doubt scrapping PCTs and putting these GPs in charge of the budget is going to do anything positive for us.

The GPs at this particular surgery recently convinced a neighbouring surgery to do the same. The other one had always provided weekly scripts but as of January 2012 stopped, giving the same reasoning.

I spoke to both surgeries and even told them about repeat dispensing, which would result in them signing only one script, but even this fell on deaf ears and I was told it would still create extra workload on receptionists and they did not need that and, if it was a problem, then it would be advised the patient sought another pharmacy to dispense their prescriptions, who would accept monthly scripts.

Obviously you are not going to dismiss your patients so quickly, but these sorts of selfish decisions by GPs are further adding to the reduction in margins and can cripple cash flow overnight. I definitely got the impression that they could not care less, so as long as their workload stayed as low as possible and their budgets adhered to at any cost. It's this sort of thing which makes me personally feel the scrapping of PCTs and power-shifts to GP consortia will make things worse for community pharmacy. This in turn will affect everything from staff shortages to locum rates etc.

I genuinely hope that future healthcare in the community has a strong partnership between GPs and pharmacists, because we do not have that currently. We see it in hospitals more, but not in the community. I do not want it to be a pipe dream but at present even if I mention independent prescribing to some GPs they are shocked that we are allowed to prescribe after "a quick course". Nurses prescribe every day at surgeries and GPs don't bat an eyelid.

Anyway, this rift that seems to still exist may need to be addressed early at university level, but until there is a direct incentive for BOTH parties to work together and need each other, not just pharmacists at the mercy of GPs, things will never permanently improve for the better. If only somebody in the government would realise this!"
 

How do you think pharmacists will fare with GPs controlling the NHS budget?

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Your Comments
Allan Wilson, Community pharmacist
Posted on 31 January 2012.
Stop supplying medicines in dosette boxes. They are costly, labour intensive and the medicine is unlicensed when popped out the original packThat will free up some of your time to deliver other services
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Sachin Badiani, Other healthcare professional
Posted on 31 January 2012.
Spot on Ravi!

As for MDS trays, would any other pharmacy accept only monthly scripts? Trays and seals are not themselves cheap (35 pence to 45 pence EX VAT). The time taken to pop the pills out from blister, the time to dispense, and the time to check and seal (and then deliver) are not exactly quick. You would need to invest in a de-blistering machine (again you can go and find out the cost). All these costs add up. The GPs are being unreasonable IMHO (reading as you have put it).

Email your PCT tomorrow and complain whilst they are still in power. Then in a later blog, tell us what their reply was.....
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DINESH GUNCHALA, Locum pharmacist
Posted on 31 January 2012.
I HAVE BEEN SHOUTING ABOUT THESE ,BUT WHO LISTENS---FALLS ON DEAF EARS.IT HAS BEEN 40 YEARS SINCE I QUALIFIED & PHARMACISTS ARE NOT RESPECTED BY OTHER PHARMACISTS NEVER MIND DOCTORS.WE DO NOT STAND A CHANCE.THE BIG BOYS ARE FLOURISHING AT PHARMACISTS COST.WHAT IS THE POINT OF CALLING OURSELVES PROFESSIONALS?
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Sachin Badiani, Other healthcare professional
Posted on 31/01/12 22:01 in reply to Sachin Badiani.
Sorry, I meant to add complain to your LPC as well.
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Zaima Rafiq, Community pharmacist
Posted on 31 January 2012.
I have exactly the same problem as you! I manage 100 dosette blister packs, and this process as you know is time consuming as well as managing everything else. GP's don't realise this and only care about their own budgets and savings. My request for weekly scripts keeps getting ignored.

GP's, even receptionists and some practice managers have no respect for us pharmacists!! I think it's disgusting. I will complain to my PCT too about this.
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Ravi Patel, Community pharmacist
Posted on 02/02/12 16:04 in reply to Allan Wilson.
Hi Allan, if only it were that simple, these patients need dossette boxes. Some of them need them due to their carers only being allowed to administer the medication if set out in boxes whilst others would clearly forget to take all their medication as the prescriber intends. Some of these patients have been using and know the pharmacy all their lives, and to be told to leave just because of the new cost and labour involved in making their boxes would not be something I would want to do to them. If the GP really cared the same amount for that patient they would not want to just tell them to seek another pharmacy at the drop of a hat so they did not need to provide a weekly script anymore.

So I agree yes I could stop supplying boxes, but since I know my patients personally and not as a number, I wouldn't do that to them. Secondly we would still lose out, as those prescriptions whether weekly or not would be gone.
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Brian Austen, Non healthcare professional
Posted on 2 February 2012.
GP Practice prescribing budgets have always been a very large part of their overall budget. In the past when GPs overspent on their prescribing budget, PCTs had limited influence and no real sanction. Many GPs prescribed what they thought was best for the patient and their conscience was clear. Once PCTs are out of the picture, GPs will have to take much more responsibility for their prescribing budgets.

It is likely that some Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCG) will not want to include GP Practices that have a large overspend on their prescribing budget. Those that are neither willing nor able to adequately control their prescribing budget may find themselves excluded.

The problem for pharmacists is that GPs in CCG without adequate controls and regulation will do things their way. They will not be held accountable for what happens in pharmacy so it is unlikely to be a consideration or concern. With this in mind it is very important for pharmacists to engage and be involved with Health and Wellbeing Boards in the future.
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Brian Austen, Non healthcare professional
Posted on 02/02/12 16:22 in reply to Ravi Patel.
Having listened to and read comments from national and local politicians as well as representatives of hospital doctors, GPs, nurses and pharmacists I cannot help thinking that everyone seems to have lost sight of the fact that they are contractors or employees with a responsibility to provide the best possible service to patients.

Too many in the NHS are making policy and designing protocols, care pathways, systems and procedures for the provision of care without putting the needs of patients first.

This is an excellent example of a GP making policy for his own benefit rather than focusing on what is best for the patient

I know of a GP Surgery that has its own pharmacy that has changed where it provides appointments for patients from their main surgery (no pharmacy) to a branch surgery (with their own pharmacy); result the patients have started using the pharmacy in the branch surgery to the detriment of their own village pharmacist. This has not been done for the benefit of patients but for financial gain of GPs. The problem is that they can carry on doing this because there is only guidance on conflict of interest and no regulation. I have witnessed many similar tactics in my previous career working for GPs. Things will not change for the better, without regulation they will get far worse!
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Efe Ekakitie, Locum pharmacist
Posted on 2 February 2012.
The solution to all these problems facing Pharmacy is quite easy. Since the politicians prefer to dictate zero profit for every single area where pharmacy can generate income, we can now no longer call Community Pharmacy in the UK a business model... no! they are no longer busniesses. Thus, It becomes necessary to migrate Community Pharmacy from a business model to a full fledged NHS provider. We cannot run Community Pharmacies with the current funding. Pharmacists and all staff salaries should now come directly from the NHS whilst the NHS funds everything from drugs to premises. In this way, they will seize to think we are making huge profits which obvoiusly we ain't. The current funding system is a sham and a white paper fraud on community Pharmacies.
If we don't join forces as Pharmacists and tackle this headon, the final outcome is that Politicians and their cronies will buy over independents and merge them into multiples, then turnaround and employ you for peanuts. The hidden secrets of psuedo-capitalism. Lol.
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Anant Bhogaita, Locum pharmacist
Posted on 4 February 2012.
It's about time the PSNC discuss supplying Dossetts as a NHS service and we get paid for it. Oops! But looking at the PSNC's recent dealings , we may end up with a worse deal!
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gary lewis, Non healthcare professional
Posted on 4 February 2012.
Some things don't change us 50+ pharmacists were calling for same recognition 30 years ago with little progress .
Need a pharmacy lobby in parliament general election into 2 years go Ravi -
Can see it now Ravi Patel MP appointed health minster 2032
Go Ravi!
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Kieran Eason, Superintendent
Posted on 04/02/12 13:09 in reply to Ravi Patel.
I'm having similar issues at the moment...

Firstly have you worked out how much its costing you to make up the trays as Sachin Badiani says they are expensive and being unlicenced put you in a dubious legal posisition if something goes wrong. So you may not lose out as you may be making a loss anyway.

If your only doing them because carers request them, then the carers need to be trained to give the medication without them (with MAR charts) - thats a PCT issue - if the PCT want you to do it they should tell the drs to do weekly scripts. If they don't then you should definately stop doing them and if the patients/carers complain, then tell them the doctors are refusing to fund them and give them the name and number of the practice manager.

If you don't want to do that you should at the very least be stopping any new people going on the boxes and if they ask why say that the drs don't think they need it and so wont fund it.

I too would love to hear what your PCT and LPC have to say about it.
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Ianto Jones, Other healthcare professional
Posted on 4 February 2012.
the surgery insists that we are already paid for providing this service under the support for people with disabilties part of our contract !
Do we have a counter argument to this ?
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Adina Brown, Community pharmacist
Posted on 04/02/12 20:47 in reply to Kieran Eason.
i agree with superintendent. i do 50+ dossetts/week at my practice, they are very labour intensive. spend half of my working hours each day checking dossetts, amending changes that have been made by hospitals or by the GP's, and talk less of the paper work that go with it, plus the majority are on 6 up to 16 items, so dossetts are heavy duty tasks. whenever i had request for dossetts, whether coming from the GP, or social care person or even from a family member i get them talking to their GP, that we will only take it on if the scripts are done weekly. maybe you could adopt that trategy going forwards. your GP's are being unfair, it takes the bat of an eye to sign a script compared to filling in just one row of a dosset box. whose interest/care are your Gp's looking after, obviusly theirs and not the patients.
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Sachin Badiani, Other healthcare professional
Posted on 04/02/12 22:01 in reply to Adina Brown.
http://www.psnc.org.uk/pages/disability_discrimintation_act_dda_1995.html

Found this link for clarification on the PSNC website. emoticon
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Sachin Badiani, Other healthcare professional
Posted on 9 February 2012.
Ravi, tell your doctor firmly that in the not too distant future, when ETPR2 prescriptions come in, that all the scripts can be digitally signed and sent to a pharmacy contractor. This will do away with the argument that it takes an extra couple of minutes to scribble a signature. All they have to do is to do a few clicks with the mouse.

We are lucky to be in an area with a ETPR2 Doctor's surgery. Took less than 24 hours from fax request to first ETPR2 prescription coming to my system. Very happy. And my PMR system is ready to accept ETPR2 scripts for the MDS patients (in 4 x 7s).

Cannot wait to see what response you get. Keep us posted emoticon
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