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PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12

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PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 K Dhanoa 08/09/11 16:30
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Rajive Patel 08/09/11 21:01
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Rajive Patel 08/09/11 21:27
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Clive Hodgson 09/09/11 09:11
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Emma Weinbren 09/09/11 09:27
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Rajive Patel 09/09/11 11:50
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Rajive Patel 09/09/11 11:53
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 K Dhanoa 09/09/11 12:23
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Glyn Ratcliffe 09/09/11 12:29
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Rajive Patel 09/09/11 12:33
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 S Morein 09/09/11 12:35
RE: PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Chris Locum 21/09/11 10:43
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Rajive Patel 09/09/11 12:37
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Rajive Patel 09/09/11 12:39
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Stuart Abbott 09/09/11 12:41
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Clive Hodgson 09/09/11 12:50
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Ketan Chandi 09/09/11 12:51
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Emma Weinbren 09/09/11 13:26
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Rajive Patel 09/09/11 13:52
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Jennifer Richardson 09/09/11 15:23
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Rajive Patel 09/09/11 15:26
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Rajive Patel 09/09/11 16:03
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 K Dhanoa 09/09/11 18:03
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Ian Menzies 09/09/11 21:23
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 waldman 10/09/11 12:55
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Ethan Crane 11/09/11 02:29
RE: PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Grandmaster Caine 11/09/11 10:28
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Grandmaster Caine 11/09/11 10:30
RE: PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12 Anonymous 14/09/11 13:53
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
08/09/11 16:30
Here's some rough calculations for you:

2011/12 funding rose by 1.6% or £40m

Now at face value you think, well its an increase but now lets add in the fact that prescription volume rises on average by 5% each year. So immediately you'll see that we are in fact going to be making minus 3.4% this coming year or a reduction of £84million to our contract funding as a basic.

Then we add in the restriction in Cat m profitability. Which as stated will claw back a total of £98mil over the next 12months. And thats assuming that the "annual reduction of £40m per annum from April 2012" constitutes £10mil per quarter and not the full £40m during those last 6months.

So in summary what i see is a contract that will in fact reduce our pay by a staggering £182million year on year or a ridiculous 7% cut in real term funding. One of the largest drops in our funding for a number of years.

So once again a really well done to the PSNC negotiating team, you have truly out done yourselves this time. And I note how well the cost of goods inquiry was used in helping us show the government that further reductions in pay would be disastrous and totally unfair to contractors.

What a major disappointment, but I guess after so many years of working with this ridiculous and out dated contract I should be used to the disappointment.
Link back to original article
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
08/09/11 21:01as a reply to K Dhanoa.
I think Sue Sharp's face in that picture sums it all up!!!
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
08/09/11 21:27as a reply to K Dhanoa.
I guess the only upside here is for prospective buyers of pharmacies. For so long the sector has been fizzing with ridiculous valuations, now we should see the profits fall and then we can get some good bargain basement deals. Hopefully, in 10 years time Labour will come back in and chuck money at the health service and start the cycle of riduculous profits and ridiculous valuations so those who buy now will sell out at a huge profit.

Most pharmacy contractors are washed with cash and simply greedy. They had it too good for too long, now they need to realise without lots of hard work for lesser cash, they will need to sell out at cheap prices.

Also, Pharmacists need to realise the days of £20+ locum fees are over: we all need to feel the PAIN!! I think a fair pharmacists wage has to be around the £14 per hour mark and thats being rich. They can only earn a percentage of what the contractor is getting. And the fact is if the paymaster is cutting, locum fees need to dive!!!
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 09:11as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Well put Dhaona.

I appreciate that the economics are difficult at the moment so we can’t expect much but……
Any extra funding negotiated for MURs or NMS’s etc. by the PSNC is trivial compared by the effective reduction in remuneration for the core dispensing service which is and for the foreseeable future will be our prime source of income.

And just a couple of extra points (I am sure there are more)……

As mentioned in other replies to C&D over the last few weeks, the PSNC has for decades been unable to negotiate the claiming of broken bulk and dressings.
Also the PSNC has failed to make any form of stand against the never ending increase in bureaucracy and paperwork that is engulfing front line pharmacy.

Regards

Clive
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 09:27as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Thank you for all your comments. We're writing a reaction piece to the news today, so we'll make sure your views are included.

Kind regards,

Emma Weinbren
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 11:50as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Frankly Pharmacists need to club together and push forward a vote of no confidence in the PSNC negotiation team.

It seems our trade groups like Avicenna, Numark et al, are completely useless when it comes to pushing though grass roots views on real issues. Everyone likes ripping us like EPS systems suppliers, Trade Groups etc, well ENOUGH is ENOUGH.

If anyone wants to set up a REAL group that represents contractors true views, I for sure will join and give financial support!

The fact is too many people who claim to represent pharmacy have been perched up in their ivory towers for far too long!
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 11:53as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Very strange how the picture in the article has changed. Anyone at C&D receive a phone call from our friends at PSNC. Unbelievable!!!
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 12:23as a reply to K Dhanoa.
I have to agree with the vote of no confidence Rajive, but setting up a new negotiating committee won't be such an easy thing to do. Voting in more competent people who actually have to work with the contract I believe should be our next step. If changing the organisation is too difficult we change the people representing us within it.
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 12:29as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Why are adjustments not made to the overall discount scale to take account of the impact on discount of direct to pharmacy schemes?
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 12:33as a reply to K Dhanoa.
I agree Dhanoa, I was not intimating setting up a new negotiating committee as such since statute means only the PSNC can be negotiators. My view is setting up a lobbying group representing the real views and needs of contractors. We all know boots et al can whether the storm since they work on stupidly large margins anyway, but independent contractors are suffering from the current remuneration methods.

I would definitely support a lobbying group to hold the PSNC negotiators to account. It was amazing recently at a C&D Senate meeting to discuss NMS, that mimi lau suggested pharmacy should accept the feeble remuneration in the interests of patient care!!! Is there some massive disconnect here, these representatives (I think she represents NUMARK) of pharmacy contractors actually consider us to be charity organizations. WE ARE NOT FREE SERVICE PROVIDERS!! We need to be adequately funded and there is no if's or but's.

It just seems right now the whole world is against us. Buying groups are a blatant waste of money and offer nothing but pointless self ego-massaging conferences, when it comes to the crunch on real issues they are like a bowl of melted ice-cream!!
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 12:35as a reply to K Dhanoa.
More of the usual whinging from the same contractors who expect to be overpaid and completely protected from any market forces.

These contractors are only happy when they have their little monopoly areas, with zero prospect of any new entrant, fabulous if your the contractor - appalling for the patient in terms of choice and value. Why should a contractor with their financial vested interest determine what service a patient can expect.

As for the rediculous statistical attempts to justify continual excess profits don't forget nearly 80% of contractors voted for the framework with clear information provided. Look at your accounts you've never had it so good.
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 12:37as a reply to K Dhanoa.
What astounds me the most is why have the PSNC agreed a settlement, without factoring the COSI. It funny how the impact of that is not taken into account. This is exactly why the PSNC negotiators must face a grilling from contractors....why dont they arrange a road show so we can hold them to account!!!!!
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 12:39as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Exactly Morein!! The quicker the Locum rates come down the better!! It's ridiculous how locums have had it so good, I mean £23+ per hour is ludicrous. Thats exactly what the paymaster thinks and thats why eventually contractors WILL reduce the locum rate...like I said..when the times were good we all won, now we will all feel the PAIN
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 12:41as a reply to K Dhanoa.
I must admit what I find most intersting is the new Specials Tariff. I do wonder how they are going to set the prices.
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 12:50as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Dhanoa is right in that it would be very difficult to set up a new negotiating comittee. At the moment they (PSNC) get paid regardless of the outcome of negotiations and do not seem to be fully accountable.
A vote of no confidence may be appropriate...what does anyone else think?
I do think it should be run by those who have to work with the current contract and really understand the situation at the grassroots level.
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 12:51as a reply to K Dhanoa.
The PSNC has lost the plot as far as negotiating with DoH is concerned. We need proffesional negotiaters who can like the GP's contract get us fair pay instead of year in year out, cuts with added workload!!
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 13:26as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Thanks to everyone who has posted so far.

Just to let you know we will soon be publishing another news story on this - there have been quite a few comments on the package, and Day Lewis' director has agreed the net impact of the package will be "negative". We will also be interviewing Sue Sharpe on the funding next week, so will be happy to put some of your questions to her.

Many thanks,

Emma
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 13:52as a reply to K Dhanoa.
why dont you ask her if she we will the honorable thing and stand down and let someone else take over negotiations. I am confident most contractors feel the current PSNC are inadequate in their negotiations and there should be a vote of confidence in her leadership.
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 15:23as a reply to K Dhanoa.
The above comment has been edited for legal reasons.
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 15:26as a reply to K Dhanoa.
I think there is a real danger of the PSNC seriously misjudging the mood of the contractors. When Sue Sharpe and Her Mob at the PSNC have spent us into a terible state and little seems to be getting done about pharmacy contractor finances. This whole issue seems like a tribal onanistic orgy where the PSNC are at their most comfortable - scoring points on things that don't really matter that much like when they secured the NMS service.
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 16:03as a reply to K Dhanoa.
This new settlement should be refereed to as BOHICA. For those of you who don't know what it means:

BOHICA? An internet acronym, Bend Over, Here It Comes Again
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 18:03as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Colourful way of putting it Rajive. But you know what I have to agree with you.

We have now been in this contract for far far too long. It was meant to be "fair" and "cost neutral" way back when it was introduced. It clearly isn't fit for purpose any longer, the structure of profitability is completely incorrect as shown by the cost of goods inquiry and yet here we are some ten years later still only being allowed to earn the same restricted £500mil purchase profit on Cat M products??

How is that fair especially in light of the latest revelation that we are doing I think it was some 80% more work than when the contract was first established and still we are only allowed the same purchase profit?? With contractors jumping up and down in disbelief and still nothing productive is negotiated by the PSNC??

I understand the situation that the economy is in but pharmacy has been under funded now for many more years. Yet every quarter of every year we are squeezed and squeezed. Perhaps there should be a petition for whether actual pharmacy contractors feel there are calls for no confidence on the C+D web site. Along side the facts of work load increases versus Cat M profitability and the cost of goods inquiry clearly shown for contractors to see whether they feel they have any confidence left in their representative negotiating committee. I for one lost confidence a long time ago, it's time for a fresh new team at the psnc that actually work within the confines of this contract to then be expected to negotiate them going forwards.
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
09/09/11 21:23as a reply to K Dhanoa.
I regularly check my accounts and trust me they ain't so good!
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
10/09/11 12:55as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Has anyone worked out the optimum to achieve maximum profit from community pharmacy?
It is apparent that the more items we do; the more we lose.
David Sharpe said long ago that eventually our money will come from the service elements and that is coming through now. Therefore; is there a statistician amongst us that can provide the equation for optimum profit?
Something like...
x MUR + y NMS + z other services + w [items - referred items] = optimum. What would 'w' be? Assume average overheads.
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
11/09/11 02:29as a reply to K Dhanoa.
I presume Rajive, you are not a locum then? LOL
RE: PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
rip independent community pharmacy
Answer
11/09/11 10:28as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Rajive is right we need to group together and lobby to save community pharmacy. The so called bodies which claim to be a voice for pharmacy have a vested interest. They are neither representative nor have leaders who understand pharmacy. These are the fat cats who have their own interest at heart. Is Pharmacy Voice a representative of pharmacy per se? No!. I include here the so called buying groups who are lining up their pockets. True hypocrites. It's time to give these bodies including the PSNC a vote of no confidence. If we dnt, it's the end of independent community pharmacy as we know it -RIP.
PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
11/09/11 10:30as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Rajive is right we need to group together and lobby to save community pharmacy. The so called bodies which claim to be a voice for pharmacy have a vested interest. They are neither representative nor have leaders who understand pharmacy. These are the fat cats who have their own interest at heart. Is Pharmacy Voice a representative of pharmacy per se? No!. I include here the so called buying groups who are lining up their pockets. True hypocrites. It's time to give these bodies including the PSNC a vote of no confidence. If we dnt, it's the end of independent community pharmacy as we know it -RIP.
RE: PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
14/09/11 13:53as a reply to K Dhanoa.
Have you factored/added in the CIP one off payment £20M and New Medicines service £55M, looks a bit better then. But not great if inflation is 5.2%!
RE: PSNC reveals funding for 2011-12
Answer
21/09/11 10:43as a reply to S Morein.
Plenty of whining and looking to everyone else to resolve the issues.

The problem is when you consider yourself a professional you have certain expectations.Contractors historically have had it very good. The staff got paid wages and they made a profit.

There is an air of expectation. A sense of entitlement. We are not any special case.

Of course without the pharmacist Rajive none of this would be possible, you could not get away with paying them minimum wage or abuse their goodwill as I have seen many contractors do over the years with support staff. The three levels of dispensing fees in the past were (I was told) to support a second pharmacist.

Well that never happened and even if it was financially possible (in some pharmacies) I am these contractors at that point in time were only too happy to take extra profit than have another pair of hands.Given the present economic environment there will be no pharmacy bailout now or in the next few years.

Forget it.

If you look at typical retail businesses they have to survive on thinner margins than us, and we will have to learn from that whether we like it or not.As for what a pharmacist should be paid, regular or locum, there are many opinions.I am concerned for those just starting their career and those to follow who will be in a much harsher financial climate which will be under rewarded, target driven, understaffed, and the RP regulations .

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